It's a proper book now.
Demon Road was a little over 121,000. I had wanted it to be 80,000, which is roughly the size of Dark Days. Obviously, that didn't happen. But I am DETERMINED that Desolation be of a more manageable size. It'll probably end up somewhere around the 100,000 mark.
Writing a book can be a struggle. It's just so happened that in the writing of this one, every time I started to flow, and write LOTS, I had to go off on tour or do festivals or get interrupted for a multitude of reasons. It's very hard to build up any kind of rhythm when your writing schedule is kinda messed up.
But I'm flowing now. I want to get this latest draft off to my editor on Monday, because on Tuesday I'm off on holiday to Disneyworld and Universal Studios.
For Halloween.
Ooooooh this is gonna be my kind of holiday. By day, we go to Magic Kingdom, and go on rides and visit Harry Potter world and just have good, nice lovely fun...
But at night...
Universal Studios over Halloween has the most terrifying horror experiences on offer, and I will be going and subjecting my girlfriend to the ordeal. I'm going to tweet about it. I'm going to take videos. You may see me scream.
But it shall be a manly scream. A WAR CRY.
And then I'll run away and leave Laura to face this guy on her own.
Gonna be FUN.
Posts
4,963 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 2201 – 2400 of 4963 Newer› Newest»(They shouldn't be allowed back out.)
(min yeh sure little things... I don't care if someone who stole £1000 gets out gets to live normally... max though like the stuff I said, imagine a guy has raped and murdered 50 children and one of them happens to be yours... do you want to give this man another shot at life where he may do the same to someone else's child... )
(I want justice. I don't want to rape him, which appears to be your version of justice.
@Gem Well, they won't be out if they're serving life without parole. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have rights, nor that they should be ignored with a simple "I don't care what happens to them as long as they stay in prison")
( not literally and well not you yourself... I just mean if they get raped inside then so be it I don't care because they deserve it )
@Keiron: Haha, so now we should breed humans to make them more law-abding? I think Hitler had the same idea. :P
I . . .
Right, I haven't thought about this topic in a long while and so I'm just sort of updating my prior views to fit with my current worldview. Update pending. Um.
Right. So I don't believe in killing unless necessary. As in, I believe in killing someone if a) they are harmful enough to society that they should be removed from it and b) you cannot remove them from society by non-lethal means. In my society we have very secure prisons - if criminals are locked up in them, escape is practically impossible. As such, people can be removed from society without death being caused. Therefore, there is no need for the death penalty.
I think, whwn thinking about subjects such as these, we should favour courses of action based on how they improve the world as opposed to how they satisfy personal emotion. Will making prisoners suffer more deter significantly more people from committing crimes? Last I checked, no (if you want reliable proof of this I'll see if I can find some and if I don't I will admit that I'm wrong). Will making prisoners suffer help anyone who isn't a prisoner? It may make some people feel better, sure, but bullying others makes some people feel better and that doesn't mean bullying is fine. Will making prisoners suffer help prisoners? Hell naw.
What are the benefits of making prisoners suffer more than necessary?
I can see no significant benefits.
On the other hand, I can see many benefits to focusing on rehabilitating prisoners. If prisoners are rehabilitated, this results in the prisoners in question getting better lIves and it results in there being less dangerous people in the world to pose a threat for society. Rehabilitation strategies may often include reward systems. Such rewards seem to me to be a good thing as they encourage good behaviour, and as they are only granted to those prisoners who deserve it, it's not like we're rewarding prisoners who, by your logic, deserve to suffer.
So what's the issue?
I could go off into a rant here about firstly what Chloe said, which is something that often passes through my mind, and secondly about the idea that "right" and "wrong" are subjective human inventions . . . but I think that would be a tangent that is both too deep and rather irrelevant.
Just pointing out. Murderers are in prison because they wanted people dead. If you want prisoners dead . . . then how are you better than them? You may think that it's different bevause you'Re justified in wanting who you want dead dead, but I'm sure plenty of murders seemed perfectly justified to those who committed them.
The whole point of imprisoning murderers is to say that killing is not condoned in our society. If we don't follow our own rules, what us even the point in our rules? If killing people if fine so long as the person deserves it, we should be lightening murder sentences, not increasing them.
Same goes for the "making prisoners suffer" point of view and those people who are in prison for making others suffer.
(So rape is okay and you think they deserve it.
Aka breaking the law is okay if you think the victim deserves it.
Cool.)
@Kas: Omg you said that so concisely!!!
*impressed*
(@Star Hi! I think there was room for improvement, there. Your response is much better.)
A life for a life. I think that's fair.
Be treated as you want to be treated.
You kill or rape a person, really you should get the same back.
( k.)
( *Agrees with Gemmy* )
@Kas: Hi! :)
But yours is like
concise. :P
(Msd. :()
(@Star That comment was sent at Keiron as I didn't see your response at the time.
And the whole dog thing means killing off those who aren't loyal to you. Such as Jews. *nods*
What's this, I'm spouting bullshit? No, it's just you being an insubordinate bitch (as in the female dog) so you'll have to be put down now. Yay for having loyal dogs and killing the unloyal ones!)
@Gemma: An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. I'm sure there's people in prison who were only giving their victims what they deserved, and because of that they'Re horrible people who deserve to be tortured/killed?
Either they aren't, or you, the the same logic, are as well.
(Um, I don't think you're a horrible person who deserves to be tortured and killed. I'm just trying to point out the flaws I see in your "prisoners must suffer" argument.))
(@Star I meant the one where I didn't specifically mark who it was at)
@Kas: *nods* :)
( unloyal in the sense where they commit a crime you let them off with it then they keep doing it because now you have taught them it's fine to do ... and since you have taught them it's fine then others will think it is fine too ... they need to be taught to stop it. )
(Yay! Torture time! Screw human rights, this is ISISLAND!
Ahem, I meant justice. This is justice.)
@Keiron: If you haven't learnt "murder is not okay" from society by the time you reach adulthood, I don't think there's much more society can do to teach you.
^our society
^if you grow up in our society
(I still don't see why rapists should go to prison in this argument. So say someone raped a kid or two, you're just saying they should be raped in return. Now they're free to return to society, and your 1:1 justice works perfectly.)
( *just sighs and walks away* whatever. they deserve to be in there, they deserve what happens to them in there and they don't deserve the right to do it again. how about that then a little baseball ... hmm ? 3 strikes and you're out? go to jail for the same thing 3 times and well they don't let you out the third time? )
(I mean, it's not like they kidnapped someone for 8 years.)
( you don't let them back out after they are raped... it;s just part of paying for their crime. because in reality it happens anyway ... there is no way to fucking stop it . people get raped in prison some deserve it more than others and you know what i'm ok with the ones that deserved it getting it done to them. )
(Gtg now.
Still can't believe you think causing suffering and ignoring human rights is okay.)
(*frowns* what if it was your job to deliver the death penalty to a murderer? Does that make you a mad murderer or what?)
*mass
And a point I made earlier... What if your behaviour was a result of your biology?
Should we condemn those to death?)
( it makes you a killer of murderers not a murderer of murderers because that'd become serial killer killing )
(But what gives you the goddamn right to take away life anymore than the murderer?)
( because you are taking the life of someone who took innocent lives... )
(But what if they're wrongly convicted?
I watched a program
Can't remember exact figures but many people are wrongly convicted
Even if a person was caught... Do you know how unreliable eye witness testimony is?)
(At least people are taking part in something, together for once.
And it's not escalated to a proper argument yet so it's still a discussion. I'm proud of us.)
(*shrugs* I believe we are decent humans when we want to be )
So let's make this easier shall we
Prisoners shouldn't get killed for killing someone, or you know...
Because that's just tit for tat and retaliation
They've given up on their human rights by murdering or whatever
But there is a line to draw with punishments.
And yes dodgy things happen inside jails, it's just how it is
But you shouldn't enforce what happens becuase that makes you as bad as the person who did it in the first place to get behind bars
I personally think all crimes have a reason behind them be it, chemical in-balances in the brain to greed, to lust etc etc
And that's just how it is, you'll never have a perfect society ever
It's impossible tbh
So giving them their human rights and rehabilitating them may work but there is the chance they'll repeat offend (not all the time)
Scaring people by killing or raping the prisoners who did it, is immoral, wrong and people will still commit crimes anyway
And what about the innocents who are behind bars? Why should they suffer for something they didn't do?
It would be like me getting killed for a murder I didn't commit
As for death sentence, there is good reason behind it
It's a last resort of sorts
For the people who are too dangerous or their crimes where completely inhuman as to let them go on
But it's not instant death for them
They're left to rot on death row first before they finally get killed
Maybe it's so they can feel remorse for the actions (not all of them will though)
As for the people or person doing it
It is justified but will weigh on the conscience.. And will be a seriously hard job to do
Just my 5p for the meter )
See yah around )
(*raises hand* I agree with most of that, thanks rhos
I just don't agree with the death penalty at all for reasons I've Mentioned
And people are on death row for years and years
Is that not enough?)
( I'm not saying inforce it I'm just saying is it such a bad thing if it happens ... like why should we care becuase thats what they done to someone else.)
(We should care cause at the end of the day they are members of our society
We made them like that
Either that, or their genes )
( I don't care if someone hold a gun to their head and tells them to do it. they have a choice. the choice to not do it and die the better person . they made themselves that way. I won't show them sympathy for having the same thing done to them as they done to others. )
(WHAT ABOUT THOSE WITH FAULTY GENES? AND THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ABUSED WHEN THEYARE LITTLE?)
( then they need mental help... and they can get that mental help, that doesn't excuse them from punishment though .)
(So... Say a kid... A teen who has a fault with the MAOA gene and is abused physically and mentally commits a violent crime... He gets life
He had barely lived
Does he deserve it?)
( couldn't you argue that he's in a better place... it'll keep him from harm of the parents... keep harm from others and he can get help for it... he would be placed in minimum/ juvy he would be less likely to be raped in either.)
(But shouldn't he have some sort of rehabilitation)
( one off thing yes... happens again no. )
((Hello))
(Rehab isn't just a 'one off'
It requires many sessions)
(Dark eyes! It's been a while! *glomps*)
( I mean as in rehab in prison till he gets out ... if he commits again after rehab then no he should not be allowed to come back out into society as he'll hurt someone or himself
helloo dark)
((hello! *is glomped by inky* *hugs back* who are you talking about?))
(I get you
I am studying this so I guess I've been more... Exposed to other interpretations - some with which I agree
Well... With reoffending in terms of rehabilitation..
The rehabilitation mist address the actual cause of the behaviour otherwise they may reoffend
Cause what if the cause is a social factor? They would be going back into the same environment and will likely reoffend cause the reason is still present
The rehabilitation must be effective as in addresses the cause of the behaviour otherwise recidivism is quite likely)
(No one in particular dear
Just discussing improsonment )
((Interesting topic))
(It is(
(For anyone involved in the little debate going on, which I think is almost everyone, please read this. It isn't long at all.
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/Bet.shtml )
(Thanks john
I'll look tomorrow
After my theory test)
Once again - what are the benefits of making prisoners suffer more than necessary, other than "it gives me a sense of satisfaction"?
You are not addressing the logical consistencies in your arguments. By your logic, murdering and raping are horrible offences that people need to be deeply punished for, but actually murdering and raping is sometimes okay.
What if a murderer had a good reason for murder and felt it was justified? Should we just go "oh okay then" and let them off? Because if you had your way, you would be the murderer in my anecdote, and you can unquestioningly assuming that we should let you off.
Bbs sister asking for help.
^example
Not anecdote *facepalm*
I really like this little discussion group we have going on here ^.^
(Hello.
I will say this:
Justice may be a form of revenge, but its primary goal is peace - to allow people and their property to be safe. Once you start punishing people who are in prison - i.e. effectively unable to pose a threat to society - that is not justice. If a criminal is posing an immediate threat (such as when they are not actually caught), then killing them may be necessary, but not when they are locked away from society already. Doing so is not about peace, that is about making yourself feel better by hurting someone in the same way they hurt you.)
ey b0ss
I uploaded my first youtube video ever!!!!!!! :D so fucking happy. Took me forever to edit and render it then make new profile pictures and thumbnails but it is done ^.^
nice! what kinda channel is it? can i see? :P
( there it is frank )
oh nice :) but...why can i only hear keiron? I mean...you did say we wouldn't SEE you being scared, but what happened with the audio? :P
The camera did the audio too.
ahhh... i would've liked to see you get scared :P
I know. I did shit it a couple of times. Especially when i was the last person alive.
Korupted2000 is John btw for those who watch it. John came and joined when Keiron was struggling to get in.
( We'll have it fixed by next time... we didn't know until afterwards :P )
hehe :P how're you, gemmy?
sup bitch? :P
john joined? why?
( nm wby?
3 guesses why :P )
heh, to piss you off? ...umm...to piss you off...and to piss you off? :P
and yeah i am alright :)
( you missed out the obvious one. )
(good wuut? )
Thank you, Sophia. :)
-slaps Frank and Keiron-
behave yourselves!
(*hugs star*(
(Pwetty gemmy!)
(-rubs cheek- :D :P she is isn't she ! :D )
(aye ^.^)
( which do you like more the cat or harley quinn ? :P
btw i'm meant to be skully in that pic :P skelton in a suit can't go wrong! )
Just going to throw in my 2 cents and then I'll be out of your way.
Any one who rapes, sexually hurts woman, man or child should be chemically castrated if they are even considering to be let free.
If chemically castration doesn't work and they are in the second time, then no more chances in for life.
If I had my way, they would have dick, balls and fingers taken off but that is just personal reasons.
But the way I see it is, if a dog hurts someone or scars someone, the dog is automatically put down, why can it not be the same for murderers, rapists or paedophiles.
Anyway I'll be out of your way now...
Aww thanks Chloe but i'm really not. Did you watch the video or were you just talking about my profile pic?
(*curls up in the corner as a cat*)
(*cuddles jack* awww, sweetie....
I watched the vid ^.^ took me a while though cause my phone wouldn't open youtube. you are!
hi/byii em...)
(*cuddles jai*)
(This is going to work really well since nearly half of all rape claims are false.)
Really not but thanks again xD sorry about the no sound.
Tell me your real opinions on it though. Apart from the no camera no sound. What do you think of the length? is it too boring? can you hear the music in the background, it that a good touch? what do you think of the thumbnail and my profile picture and my name? what kind of videos would you like me to do. -critical feedback like this ^.^
-hugs Jaimie-
Em i completely agree with you ^.^
(That's what the court system and the police are for Kas, I'm not that naive. They clearly investigate every claim of rape or they wouldn't be able to sift through the real claims and the fake ones.
I've heard many a case of girls claiming rape cause they were heartbroken or drunk but they retract once is gets bigger than they could handle and their story starts unravelling.
Plus it can be hard for girls and men to come forward with genuine rape claims because of the way that society still makes it taboo, 'oh she was asking for it' 'he's a man, he can't get raped.'
So in that sense, the police take it extremely seriously and investigate because they want to get beasts like that off the street.)
( You really are Gemmy :D :P don't listen to jack :P you are the most gorgeous girl on this planet :P hehe kiddin on about the don't listen to jack but still true. )
(*cat cuddles Chloe back*
*cat hugs Chloe back*
*feedback - Maybe a bit shorter, 15mins or so?
-Definitely get audio working. Silly camera.
-Minecraft! Plz..
-JammyDodgers.. hehe.. when old nicknames pop up..*)
(@Gemma I think the intro was better than the ones in the bloopers, so well done on reshooting it to get it right.)
(hi kas!
1. I think the video was a good length ^.^
2. I didn't find it boring
3.i could hear the music in the background. it wasn't loud... so it didn't interfere with anything.
4. I thought it did add to the spookiness
5. thumbnail was good
6. I love the picture XD
7. the name is cute and unique
8. I like gaming videos- how knows, you may be the next markiplier. but I know for a fact that you can really sing, so I think you can also post videos of you singing ^.^)
(@Gem Yeah, having a small box with your face + your audio would help. And the video would probably be better at 20-30 minutes in length.
@Em I propose we cut off people's fingers if they steal, and cut off their heads if they headbutt. I'm sure it'll work out great. /areyouforreal)
(Hey, Chloe.)
@Kas: *laughs*
I've heard that most rape is about power as opposed to sex. Not sure how true that is.
(@Star You know, you may be right. Prisoners do need to show other prisoners who has more power.)
(I am going to bed now
nos da)
( goodnight CHloe )
(Good night, Chloe!)
(I said 'If I had my way...' doesn't mean that it is going to happen. Personally if someone is a sexual predator, I wouldn't want them having any way of hurting anyone sexually every again.
But unlike me, the justice system doesn't do shit like that so don't worry, no fingers are coming off any time soon.
But, and again, if for some reason any sexual predator is being let out and back into society, then they must be chemically castrated and tagged. They want to behave like horny animals, they get treated like horny animals. Not just released and never to be seen again.)
(@Em But... tongue.)
It seems to me like everyone who's up for punishing people is acting under the assumption that people won't ever change and that if someone makes a very bad decision once, that means that that decision represents everything that person is and everythign that person ever will be.
(That's something couples use while having sex so it is something that sexual predators can use as well...)
(@Em Cut all the things off!!!!!!!!)
(@Star *shrugs* I think it's more a case that they have a strong need to dehumanise certain parts of the population.)
(They won't be able to use anything else if you take away their dick, fingers and tongues...
As I said, it is my personal reasoning, naturally I'm a minority in that reasoning. I know.
But sexually predators are working off deep sexual instincts, there is no cure for it, no medicine or treatment that will ever take those urges away. It's like me with my depression, I can take medication to have a few good days but all it takes is one trigger, and I'm all fucked up and back to square one.
It's the same with sexual predators and serial killers.)
I'm not as confident with singing than i am with just talking. My jar of hearts video on facebook didn't go as well as i had hoped. There is no way i'm going to be the bext Markiplier. I have 3 subscribers. He has how many?
I think that 15 minutes is a little too short for me but i doubt i would go above 30 minutes usually. The bloopers and stuff added a couple more minutes to that video.
Anything else you guys would like to add to improve it or any suggestions on what videos to do?
Jaimie i'll have to buy minecraft first but i can do that like tomorrow :)
(@Em I don't think cutting body parts off is a morally acceptable punishment, nor, as you mentioned, a deterrent to stop a criminal from deciding to commit, say, rape.)
My video was over an hour before i decided to change it and cut it more. After 3 hours of rendering so i had to render it for another 2 hours. I think over 30 minutes people get really bored and i don't want that to happen. I know that i got really fucking bored watching my own cideo after the 2nd time. Now watched it like 6 or 7
Con- I really would appreciate it if you don't talk that way about prisoners. My brother is in jail and he's in state prison because the judge held a bias against him, and one girl lied, says she lied and nothing happened, and the judge wouldn't drop the charges for the liar, sending him to state prison over what the lying girl said.
Why do you think I haven't been on? You don't know the agony it is to go see him when he was in county, he was transferred to state middle of October, last night was the first time I heard his voice since then.
Do you want to be in my shoes? I think not, so before you judge the incarcerated, you should remember you don't know the story or the impact it has on their family.
It's horrible to see him there I haven't seen him since the week before he was transferred I probably won't see him until Thanksgiving, through a glass window on a phone. I won't hug him until Christmas when he moves to the prison with contact visits, one hour only.
Put yourself in my shoes, the corruption and injustice we saw.....
That's why I would like you to not talk like that.
You have no idea what I've been through and what others have too.
-Zaf
*hugs Zaf*
(I know it's not acceptable!! I am not stupid!!!
There is a reason why I think like that, which I'm not gonna say on the public forum, which I think you guess by now what it fucking is.
I'm a little bit older than most of you, I've seen how this world has deteriorated and lost it's sanity because people are not being stricter on those who do wrong and more sympathetic towards the victims.
My lovely Irish judicial system released 4 serial rapists who only served a 1/4 of their sentences, one was a paedophile. And for what? Just so they could piss off to England, where no one knows them and start all over again?
When did the bad guy become the victim? When did someone who did wrong suddenly get the boo hoo vote?
Zafira, we've been saying only the people who truley deserve it should have this fate. Not including your brother is ge was wrongly accused. People who have murdered multiple people and not changed. It is them who should die.
@Gemma: And how do we know that plenty of people (such as these accused mass murderers you speak of) aren't also wrongy accused?
(Well there's your problem, 1/4 a sentence = cutting corners. Might as well go with 1/4 a death sentence.)
(@Star Don't you know there's a magical device that tells us which convicted murderers are innocent!?)
@Kas: Omg really??? :)
(@Em So you're saying we shouldn't treat some prisoners as humans, yet we expect them to follow laws?)
Well surely if they're mass murderers someone must have seen them or like the one that go in schools, all the TV see what's happened. You can't make a mistake for people like that.
I don't think that anyone without solid proof agaibst them should go yo jail. Not just a witness that can lie. Not a video that can be changed. Real solid evidence like DNA.
They should be kept in jail until they get the evidence. About 10 ywars if they can't depending in how serious the crime is. 10 years for mass murderers, 8 years for rapists 5 years for pedos then down it goes.
Sorry it's just something I feel strongly about. It's hard....
Sorry
(*agrees with Gem * longer if actually convicted though... ? right? )
(@Gemma Why? What if you have 10 suspects? Imprison them all for 10 years just to find out the guy committed suicide? What a great plan.)
I get it Zaffy, i get it. We're not saying we want your brother to die. I know it must be hard that he's in there because someone else was a bitch.
-hugs-
(@Zaf It's okay. Feel free to talk if you want...)
(Unfortunately you can not always find good in people. You can't. If you do, you will just live a life of disappointment. That's what goes wrong with a lot of people, they spend their whole lives wasting time on hoping that people will change when they don't.
Abused woman hoping their partners will change. Sexually abused children hoping their relative won't hurt them again. Distraught families, visiting prisons week after week, hoping the person who killed their loved one will change and give them an explanation or tell them where the bodies are.
If a person knows they don't have to change because they will always be forgiven, they won't change.)
Well a case that has 10 suspects isn't going to go anywhere and you'll need to hold back the trial. You'll just have to make sure you watch all 10 to make sure they din't try to leavd the country.
And watch, Kassy. You're starting to get a little snappy.
Em- I think the crime and punishment need to fit.
My brother wasn't deemed to be a threat to minors, and actually he's there for more who then what he did, what he did is perfectly acceptable for society now.
But now Em, for example, my brother and his cellmate are ADHD, locked in a cell 22 hours straight. Is that just? Remember, they have no medication and the area this is for is drug dealers robbers nobody serving life. So.....Would you want to be there even if you know you are punished for a crime?
See you don't know the other side til you experience it.
So it's okay to hate on all the other convincted rapists but not Zaf's brother because seeing as how you know her that means that he's exempt?
(Just to make it absolutely clear, I am NOT saying we should hate on Zaf's brother. I am just pointing out that plenty of other convicted rapists may be innocent and plenty of other convicted rapists have family who will be upset by their conviction. I'm not encouraging you to show less empahty for Zaf's brother, I'm encouraging you to show more empathy for other prisoners.
I really hope I've made that clear . . .)
(@Em So what's the point in torturing/causing them to suffer? They won't change, it's not a deterrent, it's not helping anybody, it's inhumane, it's just petty.)
I'm not planning to experience prison first hand, Zaffy :)
As i explained up there Star, if they don't have evidence they shouldn't get a full sentence. A lot less because i believe you're innocent until proven guilty.
No, you never want to, but my brother's words to me last night: "It's a hellhole here. Mice, roaches, dust and dirt all over, locked in a cell 22 hours a day. 13 phones for 800 men on a floor."
Isn't that barbaric? Would you want to sleep with mice and roaches?
(@Gem Imprisoning people who have not been convicted of a crime isn't the best idea.
What's wrong with snappy?)
Wasn't in my case, he was carted off to county before evidence was given, few weeks later at the bail hearing they said "I just got the evidence from the girl's phone last night." Denied him bail for "contacting" the first girl. Therecwas no evidence to prove him guilty they needed his phone and the day of his arrest it vanished....
@Em: I /know/ some people can never be redeemed (well, you know, never say never, but some people are so far gone that they are pretty much a lost cause). However, not everyone is like that. That is why I think we should offer prisoners the chance to redeem themselves. If they don't redeem themselves, they stay in prison, no harm done.
The thing is, we can afford to give prisoners the chance to redeemn themselves. They're locked away from society. Abusive partners are still causing pain. Stoppign them causing harm is a bigger priority than giving them chances, so yes, their partners should get the hell away from them instead of trying to redeem them. However, we've already stopped prisoners causing harm (to non-prisoners at least). That's why we have the chance to offer them a chance.
To continue with a similar comparison . . . abusive partners may know they never have to change because they will always be forgiven and given chances. However, prisoners won't get a chance at out-of-prison life again until they change. So there IS pressure for them to change, and as such the chance isn't as wasted.
@Keiron: *points at what Zaf said*
We don't wait for 100% precise evidence before locking him up.
^people
Not him
It'll be a year this December since they did this.
Denied bail without proper evidence.
Now he's in state.
Each case is unique, and it's hard to judge without all the facts.
( well in all fairness star it works like that too... like again no offence but just because you say he didn't do it and that she lied... how do you know this? did he tell you because what if he's lying ect ect ect ... just because your family is in jail means he shouldn't be there... i'd keep them in JAIL until proven guilty when proven guilty move them to PRISON different things btw )
(Do you want me to just fucking say it? Fine I'll fucking say it, since you don't seem to get it why I think like that. I was raped when I was 18, not one of my better experiences but if I had the chance to get the fuck, then yes I would torture him.
So what's the point in having police who investigate the crimes, what's the point of the CSI people, the medical examiners, the lawyers who work hard to prosecute and appeal cases.
And I can't comment on Zaf's situation because I know nothing about the case. So don't ask me to.
But prison is a consequence, not a luxury break away. And if you are coming out of the prison, you still carry the consequence of your actions, be it you get tagged, put on a register or whatever.
If this is the way society acts now, fighting for criminals not to be punished, then I don't want my son growing up in this shitty mess.
I'm not saying it's luxury, Em. But people are people and they should be treated as humans, and prison should be to make the people coming out better productive citizens. They need help and need punishment.
I don't agree with Megan's Law for those who were in consented relationships. You didn't rape a girl or guy who says yes because they agreed. You aren't a pedo if you were in a relationship and didn't rape the other.
That's where I say it's far fetched.
Do they need to pay for their entire life? No because then they can't come out and become better people if society judges them.
@Kieron: Yeah, I have to admit I'd rahter have people temporarily locked up until evidence is found that have mass-murderers on the loose. However, I'd like the conditions they're locked up in to be nice and humane whilst evidence is found. :)
@Em: *shrugs* That's your choice, I guess. I'd say people wanting to kill and torture people is more of a shitty mess, but that's my opinion.
Thank you, Zaf.
(@Em You're supposed to leave prison as someone ready to live a normal life, get a job, make a living, not break the law etc. If you go to prison just to get tortured and punished, you'll come out worse than you went in.
And if prison made you worse than just being a rapist, it's doing a shitty job.)
Don't think torture would help anything. It's selfish self-satisfaction. And so is revenge. The more logical choices are either taking lives or trying to improve them as a person.
(Thanks for the input, Spock, but I think Kirk is the one making decisions here.)
(And by that J mean this is an emotional debate more than a logical one atm)
*nods at Fera* Thank you.
(*shrugs* I should go.
But you've got to draw a line somewhere.
Getting revenge is ridiculous and stupid and brings about many problems.
And being ruthless will just make others match your ruthlessness.)
...
I don't think it should be an emotional debate, since if we want to improve things, we should take the logical approach. If emotions are the driving forces, there is going to be a lot of bias, and a lot of not-so-smart decisions *nods at star*
Yes, this is very emotional . . .
Huh. I debate with logic. Myabe that's why I'm disagreeing with people.
@Fera: You see, I see emotion as the driving force for my logic. Like, I think hhuman logic is structured on emotions. In my opinion, thinking with logic is more productive than thinking with emotion, but one needs emotion to form their logic, so . . .
. . . yeah. Confusing. :P
I shared something really personal with you all, and you just looked at me like the bad guy because that's how I feel towards the man who did that to me.
Didn't get my justice by the way. He left the country.
But you know what, I was probably asking for it or gave him the wrong signals cause god forbid, he actually did wrong.
Going now, so pissed off, thank you.
Oh and Gemma, if you ever want to do a minecraft video, mail me. I have a server and would be awesome to do something with you and your gang.
( is no one going to mention the elephant in the room or? )
( the elephant has spoken... *hugs* I didn't know what to say.... about that... and well you were agreeing with me and Gem mostly so you know i'm not looking at you like the bad guy )
@Em: I'm sorry that that happened to you, I really am, but that doesn't mean I'm going to suddenly agree with you. Unlike a lot of people here, I /am/ debating (debating, not arguing) on an entirely logical front. And disagreeing with people in the context of a debate is, to me, entirely different to arguing wiht them as a person.
I disagree with you. That doesn't mean I think you're the bad guy. It just means that you are on the alternate team in this debate. Please don't think my disagreements are symbolic of personal dislike.
I would love that Em. You Keiron and I could be in minecraft videos together :)
The one for the PC will be so different to the xbox and ps3 versions...thete is so much more to it. There isn't anything minecraft related that hasn't been done if i'm honest so i'll be mostly copying...
I wasn't looking at you like the bad guy. Again, simply because people disagree, doesn't mean that they're saying it is not understandable why you'd think that way, or that they can't share some of the emotions you're feeling towards it. But I go by cold, hard logic, and if improvements were to be made, well i don't think torturing and then releasing a person will do any good.
and well, star...i kinda get what you mean. But when we're talking about direct decisions, they can be either logical or emotional.
I just
I was calming debating here, and then everyone got awfully emotional and then it got awfully personal and I'm just sort of sat here in the dust like "*blinks* when did that happen."
And the context all sort of changed but my methods didn't change with the context.
Sorry about that.
Furthermore, I can't - like - well, I sitll disagree with you, Em, and so long as we continue this discussion I am going to continue to disagree with you. If my disagreement is upsetting you on a personal level, maybe it would be profitable to end the discussion.
Um.
*sits here trying to work out whether I should leave or not*
*realises I'm going to bed soon and shrugs*
Actually, it's more like the context all sort of changed and I carried on using methods instead of being a person.
Night guys. Up vaugly early tomorrow. (Not really but meh)
-leaves hugs for everyone and hopes no one got really upset by this debate apart from Em and possibly Zaffy-
-extra squeezy hugs for them-
(- hugs gem- that'd be great and who cares if you're copying, what isn't a copy nowadays on yt )
there are too many ideas that are already present...so no matter what you do, you will copy someone even if only slightly.
(This is a debate over what's right and what's wrong, yes? Moral VS immoral punishment. All of those are emotional expressions, so for this debate emotional drive is absolutely necessary. Straight logic will almost never give you the morally correct answer.)
It's not about morals. If doing something immoral would give the better results, so be it. It simply seems more logical, that punishment would not resolve anything, whereas ceasing the criminal's existence, or making them better people would.
Ahem. For me, this is about morals.
One of my main moral beliefs is that causing suffering is bad. Another is that more suffering = more bad. A third is that killing is bad.
I'm arguing based on these moral beliefs. I disagree with unnecessary punishment because it creates more suffering without decreasing suffering, and as such disagrees with my moral beliefs.
My argument is entirely moral. I'm using logic based on my morals.
(@Em I'm not calling you a bad guy. I'm just saying that violating somebody's body to make yourself feel good is a bad thing to do.)
This is a pretty interesting/intense debate...
(*raises hands* can I say very calmly that eye witness testimony is soooooo inaccurate)
[nods at what Inky said]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PB2OegI6wvI
(*hugs everyone involved in said debate*)
(*hugs jai*
Thanks moss ^,^)
(*feels sick*
*has theory test*)
(can we just leave said debate it won't go any further without causing an argument )
(I actually think this debate is healthy for most of us. It's bringing us all together and so far we're managing not to cause a proper argument...i think this is actually starting to heal blogland. That all of us can get involved in such a big topic like this without an argument coming out of it and with so many people because mos bloglandians have commented on this debate. ^.^ so happy)
( I think it's done as much as it can do without going into an argument though. )
You're still all debating about it??
You swear ye had nowt to do lol
morning.
(Morning yall
*frowns* this debate started by me simply stating that I had to revise for an essay on treatments and punishment of crime)
Then maybe people had a lot to get off their chests for that topic Chloe.
(Aye)
Gemma, let me know when you want to set up for the minecraft and I'll let you know the server details and that.
And we'll sort out how to do the videos and stuff.
(Heeeeeelllllllo!)
Nowadays I literally go to a debating club every week and just debate for an hour. We can't even pick our sides so we can't convince the other side or anything. We just argue at each other pointlessly.
Debating is, for me, a hobby.
If I said I engaged in Blogland debates like this because I had nothing better to do, it would imply that the only things I have to do have very little value. However, if I made such a statement, I would actually mean it entirely literally, without implications - ie., despite the fact I do have things to do with my life, there is nothing I could be doing that would seem as good as debating about the death penalty on Blogland. Because debating about the death penalty on Blogland is /fun/. In my opinion.
However . . . when I go to debating society on Mondays, we all come because we enjoy debating. We haven't picked the topic or our side; the point isn't to express your personal opinions or to convince, it's merely to /debate/. As such, it's entirely impersonal. Whereas when we have a debate of this nature on Blogland, we're all expressing our own personal views and arguing from our own standpoint. As such, it gets a whole log mor personal, and opposing people in debating terms is the same as opposing people personally. As such, when we have debates like thus on Blogland it is so easy for people to take things personally and get upset, or for people to become personally pitted against each other and thus start arguing. I mean - when debating myself I automatically find myself acting in a very accusing manner, and because of the personal slant to these Blogland debates it's easy for that to come off the wrong way (both by me not being careful enough and by people misinterpreting me) and for people to feel like I'm personally targeting them when all um trying to do is use tactics.
So . . . yes. We do walk a very fine line when we debate here. And I guess the question is really whether the risk of walking this line is worth the profit, which is a good debate.
I'm not really sure of the answer.
Ahem. Sorry. I'm in debating mode now :P so I'm really analytic and put-firward-views-and-arguments-y so um yes this comment just sort of happened.
(*glomps seren*)
Em i have Minecraft now!
Jaimie what kind of videos did you actually want me to do on minecraft?
(Hello.)
(*hugs gem and kas*)
(*hugs Chloe*
Hey, Bach. How are you?)
(I'm good
You?)
(I'm fine.
Interesting debate.
But it's over now.)
(IT MUSTVE BEEN LOVE
BUT ITS OVER NOOOOOW!)
(@Chloe ?)
(I love that song)
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